Source: Editors at Lighthouse Trails
Christian or Christ-follower. It's a distinction that is being made more and more today, and often the latter term, Christ follower, is replacing the former term, Christian. Even many Christian leaders are making the switch. But just what does it mean? Emerging church leader, Erwin McManus says his "goal is to destroy Christianity as a world religion and be a recatalyst for the movement of Jesus Christ." In McManus' book, The Barbarian Way, he talks about being "awakened" to a "primal longing that ... waits to be unleashed within everyone who is a follower of Jesus Christ." McManus says that the "greatest enemy to the movement of Jesus Christ is Christianity [i.e., Christians]." A video series on YouTube.com called "Christian No More" (by Christian Community Church) exemplifies this view by portraying those who call themselves Christians as shallow church-goers who wear suits and ties, have Christian bumper stickers on their cars and prefer the King James Version. This belittling video is evidence that it is increasingly more popular to call oneself a Christ follower rather than a Christian.



Worship services are primarly for believers as is commanded in Hebrews 10:25 and in Psalm 1. While we are instructed to be aware that unbelievers (not unchurhed) may come into our assembly, we are never told to focus on them. Just because a church does out-reach and has large numbers of people come to an event/events does not mean that people are being "Born Again." Dr. D. James Kennedy, shortly before his passing, stated that he believed upwards to eighty percent of evangelical church attenders are not saved. Bill Hybels said of Willow Creeks seeker style church services and programs; they were successful in filling buildings but a failure at building the people. Compromise does not win the lost to Jesus, but ultimately it will drag the believer down. The Church of Jesus is on the move, likewise so is the church or religious, socialist, antichrist movement.
I not only agree with everything in this article, but believe it has become so widespread and dangerous. I have personally ran across those who refuse to associate themselves with the name Christian. I found a seriously disturbing attitude and mindset that was bordering on anti-christan all the way. They have an all out campaign to sully the name Christian...I saw it on you tube myself. If anything? I would like to see more articles on this and expose this lie for what it is. God bless.
Got to agree.
It is bad when you have to stop people and find out which christ/Christ is inferred.
I have to go into an hour long question and answer before I can give a simple yes/no reply.
I'll just go with Christianos.....
You know that is a growing lie in todays world. People need to do thier homework before they jump on a bandwagon such as this. Christian is a biblical term, used in scripture (Acts 11:26,26:28,1 Pet.4:16) to describe born-again believers. I feel much of this is a mindset from folks who actually detest the things of the Lord i.e. church, hymns, etc. This new ideology stems from the root of unbelief, and blossoms to bear fruit of "self-righteousness", which gets you "nowhere" with God. I have seen this in people who also used terms like, "Change the way we DO CHURCH" that in my spirit feels so cold, and un-Christ like. People who reject God's sacrifice, only come up with their own, and this requires a "new place" to flaunt it, and so we have these "seeker friendly " churches today. Ladies and gentleman, There is a way that seemeth right unto man but at the end of it, are the ways of death.(Prov. 14:12). And this "new-age", idea is no different, it needs to be exposed, not espoused!!! If you are a Christian, then you are automatically a "Christ follower". But to discard Christian and replace it with "christ-follower" feels as if someone is very ignorant, or has an ulterior motive.
I just read your comment on the people who detest the things of the Lord i.e. church, HYMNS, etc.
Pastorbeard, most hymns, unless taken from the Psalmist verbatim are no different than any other music sung in the church. It is relevant (a word I can't stand by the way) thing based on the fact that most hymnals were written in the 30's. Tell me where "Some glad morning, when this life is o'er I'll fly away..." is any more appropriate or inappropriate to sing than "Open up the sky, fall down like rain...". The hymns were the white people's version of the negro spirituals (real songs from the heart). Go look that history up on Google. That is not even a good argument to get into because it is a very bad reason to dislike people - for the songs they sing to the King. WOW.
And who decided the 'order' of a church service? Oh, a group of men. All of us who express a differnt desire to worship God in a manner that we can relate to are now wrong? Afterall it is a relationship with God we seek, right. Or is it a religious thing like the Saducees laid out - you cannot do certain things, and only on certain days!!!??? Get rid of the religion and walk in relationship. That is what you were called for. I promise you, once you find Jesus in a serious relational way you will be a happier person.
A seeker friendly church - wow what a label. Are only the elect, called of God allowed in church? I want to be around people who are constantly seeking God and His will rather than people who think they have it all under control. I want to be a catalyst if you will to be a part of ushering people into the presence of God through my worship of my King. If I can create an atmosphere of worship where drug dealers and homosexuals will leave the filth of the world behind and open their hearts to receive God's call instead of ignoring it, I feel like I have done a good job. I want people to be attracted to me, because Christ's love is seen in me - not just in my blue suit and matching tie with my shiny black wingtips and my KJV in a neat case, never underlined or highlighted for it is my 'good' Bible. Come on, brother - you have to get out from under the lie you have been handed as truth. God wants you to be in relationship with Him. The law was fulfilled, walk in Grace.
Your debate using Scripture like Proverbs 14:12 is great, but reverse it and look into your own relationship with God. Is it really all it can be? What happens if you show up to church without a suit and start writing in your Bible? What if you wear a pair of jeans and an untucked shirt? Does God not like you? Do you have to look a certain way to be loved by God? Do you have to sing a man-preferred hymn out of a man-written hymnal to be truly worhsiping in song? No way - not my God!
I thought Christ came to save the worst people as a way to show His perfect love and to develop and inspire and finally impart that love into His disciples who taught all of the generations before you and I and finally us? Maybe I am wrong but I believe my God loves us and since He didn't even send His son to condemn us (John 3:17 - the verse most people forget to read), neither should you.
WE don't come to God or worship Him in the way we want to, we must come to Him in the way He has provided and established, that being through the sacrifice of Christ, there is no other way. The music we sing is not to bring attention to us or anything we want, or do, it is to exalt Christ and point the listener to Christ, if it doesn't then it is of no profit to the worshiper. Most churches that call themselves seeker friendly water down the gospel so as to not offend the unsaved or lukewarm therefore they do not preach against sin or tell those in attendance of eternal judgment for sin. Christ didn't have to condemn the world because sin already condemns the world to death. WE can only have a relationship with God on His terms Christ as the source the cross as the means.
I guess it depends on where you are and what you are exposed to as to what the seeker churches are doing. We are a 'seeker friendly' church, I suppose. We reach out to the community in ways that most churches in our area do not. We are definitely not lukewarm, we are spirit filled and I believe that is what attracts people to us. We do not water down the gospel - it is meant to be shared as is. We openly discuss the need to walk away from homosexual lifestyles as well as adulterous heterosexual lifestyles and preach the full gospel of Jesus Christ. There are no minced words. We have prayer for men each Tuesday morning where 150 men show up to pray each week. We have a men's meeting once a month and 150 men show up to worship. Our women's ministry boasts about 150-200 at its monthly gathering. We are a church family of about 1500.
In our area I know we actually try to get all of the churches together - we actually have a picnic with 10 or so churches - mostly different denominations, putting aside doctrine for the benefit of the community. We have tug-o-war, cake walks, music, football and lots of food. We have community groups get involved like the firefighters and police, local fisherman and politicians. We do this to show unity - even though the largest Baptist church in the area will not participate because they are uncomfortable in doing this. We do this to support, collectively, the idea that we are ONE church - the body of Christ. The community sees this and is amazed. It attracts people to want to learn more about God. The last picnic had about 2,500 people in attendance. It really was an amazing feat.
We are not an ordinary church in an ordinary area, I suppose. You know, we sing as worship to God - never to ourselves. It is amazing to have old hymns along with modern songs lifted up in the same building and to see people engaged in worship through both genres regardless of age. You can check us out online - www.destinyworship.com - the messages are online each week.
friend, your church is purpose driven and has fallen for the Rick Warren lie. I would strongly urge you to look deeper into what they teach and what purpose driven actualy is. You have been decived, just because they do good works does not make them saved. If we trust in our works for righteousness then we fall short, this is the deception that has overtaken most of the churches of today. Many will say to me in that day lord lord have we not prophesied,cast out devils, and done many wounderfull works in your name. Matt 7:21-23. I do not mean anything against you or even your church, they have bought into a lie that will only end up destroying many lives. I have been in several churches in the last 20 years that have fallen to this lie, they all mean good and truly want to help people, they just opt to do things mans way and forget about what God says to do. They fail to preach the cross as the only way to victory, and instead put the focus on programs such as celebrate recovery, and thereby teach people to follow programs rather than the word of God, they point people to things other than Christ and Him crucified. Paul said if we or an angel preaches any other gospel let him be accursed Gal 1:8-9. Please search this out your eternity depends on it. Remember you will be the one standing befor God some day, either covered by the blood or trusting in your own righteousness.
I disagree with some of the points made about the apparent destruction of the 'Christian' church. It is my opinion that we DO need to destroy RELIGION and get back to following Christ and God's Word. Far too many people have been lead astray through the guise of religion and man's doctrine. The church outlined in Acts is the church we are supposed to model our gatherings after, not a religious title taken by man to promote his doctrine. Sadly, many unbelievers will only see a cd-sermon series pushing preacher on the television and be turned away from God. Our 'churches' have been turned into a marketplace once again; hustling Bibles at every turn or even 'annointed' prayer cloths. If someone sends in a 'love gift' they are told God will hear them and bless them for sowing a seed into the ministry. God wants hearts, not money. The money will come after people fully give their heart to God. They will see that they should tithe and give offerings because the Holy Spirit will convict them to do so. In return God's blessings will be heaped upon them. NOT because they sowed a 'love gift' to a supposed 'Christian' ministry. I love the commentary, but I think you are reaching in the wrong direction and it is a little shallow. You should try getting a little deeper into the meaning of being a Christ follower and let the concept sink in without prejudice - it really does make sense. Only five of the ten bridesmaids waiting for the bridegroom's return had oil in their lamps. I believe some of these guys are truly striving to lead a movement to be included as one of those churches.
Be blessed,
Steve
Steve
You may have missed the point here. Any teacher that leads you away from total 100% faith in Christ, and what he has done on the cross, no matter how well intentioned he may be or think he is, is still leading you down the wrong path. We have to get to the place where we are trusting in God for absolutely everything in our lives and not leaning on ourself or anything else to bring us into relationship with God. Gods way to bring us back into fellowship with Himself was and is Jesus Christ crucified from the foundation of the world, only when our faith is in Him can we have a true relationship with God. Aside from putting our faith in Him there is nothing else we can do that God will accept. WE cant pray enough, study enough, be quite enough, we cant do anything enough, if we could then Jesus would not had to of given Himself on the cross. The bride that Christ is coming back for is one without spot or wrinkel the only way we can be without spot is to have the blood of Christ applied to our lives through faith in what He has done for us
I got the point fully and agree with what you have to say. I just think the concept of a religious name, not a Biblical name is what they are talking about. There is no Scripture to support the term Christian - that is the real point. People hide behind a name instead of a relationship with God. You described that relationship above. It is purely that simple. I have been to two venues where McManus was a keynote speaker and found nothing he said to be anti-Christ, only anti religious. There is a huge difference and that is what he is preaching, I believe. I believe that someone who has a RELATIONSHIP with God through Christ is what a true Christian (Follower of Christ) is. The hullaballoo is being made over a name, a title, and again a religious symbol. He is getting people to question the concept: Do I have relationship with God through Christ or do I simply have a religion that I bury myself in - there is a huge difference. Religion and doctrine are what draw people away from God - as seen in the pharisees from the New Testament and from many of the televangelists that are listed even on this site as false prophets. There are churches that believe they are the ONLY people going to heaven. Again, the scriptures say there are 5 brides with oil and 5 without oil... The religious ones won't make the cut, the ones with true relationship even as you have appropriately described will, in my opinion.
Hey Steve, Take a look at acts 11:26, 26:28 and 1Peter 4:16 and then tell me there is no scripture to support the term Christian. Also if you look at the link about the pop quiz about christ followers you will see that a christ follower is based all on what a person does to be a christ follower and not on what Christ has done for us. If we look to ourselves and what we do, we are toast, we have to look to Christ and what He has done, nothing else.Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe.
Tommyand Suzie
great comment, and Bible truth you laid out there, This is what flies in the face of the Religious community they do not like for us to expose their "golden calves", It is sad that so many do not get it, The Gospel is easy enough a child can hear it, and receive it. I pray God help the religious to forsake their laws, and rituals and serve the risen Saviour Jesus Christ our LORD!
2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
pastorbeard:
my comment above was not about NO scriptures that use the word. Indeed the word is used 3 times, but there is no further support of the word. It was years later (about 64 A.D. I think) the word was used again in public recordings - during the burning of Rome. It was recorded that it was 'the Christians' who did this. Again, a derogatory use of the word - look it up.
Jump off of your righteous box. Even Christ asked who of you is without sin that you can throw the first stone? I challenge your remarks and say that it would be far better for you to reach out to someone than to use the Word of God to attempt to put someone beneath you. I have no golden calves and am not a religious person - I have a relationship with God through Christ. I am a fully devoted follower of Christ, striving to adhere to His teachings. Though I fail, I am forgiven by God's grace. I have the hope of life forevermore because of God's love and grace, not because of anyting I have done, for I am not worthy. Well, I kinda am now because I am the son of a mighty King - it is a great circle of thought to be caught in - don't you think?
You, sir, appear to be a perfect example of what I am talking about in this forum - a perfect, modern Christian.
The hippie movement of the 60's produced a generation of rebellious young people protesting the Vietnam war, the man, the establishment and anything that represented the cultural norm. I was part of that movement before I became a "BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN." While there were a few complaints that needed to be looked at, the hippies took it to far. The sixties was the slippery slope that America has not been able to get off of. The seeker, emergent movement reminds of the hippie movement in that they may have a few points that are factual but they have gone overboard. Like the hippies, they are becoming the very thing that they hate. The hippies became very smug, know-it-alls, and everyone else was old, antiquated, know nothings, ready to be put out to pasture. It was the youth's time and no one was going to tell them what to do. They were going to be different and that was that. Today the hippies are a thing of the past and most of of us that are still alive have become part of society like everyone else. Now the problem is that we have to live with the bad that we helped create. You, along with the other emegents have become very casual and smug in your attitude towards others whom challange your teachings (doctrine). Everyone has doctrine and especially the one in whom you claim to follow. Be careful of what you are promoting because you will have to live with it too and it may not be so pleasant and cool as you think it is. One more observation, while I am not saying that you should use nothing but the KJV, neither should you mock, slander, or belittle that which God used/uses so mighty. There has not been an awakening/revival in America or the English speaking nations that did not primarly come from the preaching of some form of that Bible.
The preaching from the KJV by an old, antiquated, anointed man sure had an lasting impact on this now old former, antiquated hippie turned pastor.
Please be careful with your attitude as that is the command of God to honor the older men and women of the Church. Why God Hiimself is called the Ancient One.
I love you
Pastor Steve
My last reply seems to have disappeared. I don't know why? Perhaps it ws too long. I answered that I agreed with you in many points. Even your Scripture references. Although, the truth lies within the true meaning of the word "Christian". It means little Christ, or followers of Christ. Why is that so hard to absorb? The term Christian is a subjective use of the original text. You can look that up and see it is true.
Erwin McManus' church Mosaic follows the doctrinal beliefs of the Southern Baptist Convention - see http://mosaic.org/faq/#faq4 And, while the SBC is not the most sound body of believers (too much doctrine, not enough BIBLE), in my opinion, they are not devil worshipers or destroyers of the faith. Perhaps another group of interest would be Community Christian Church in IL, found on the web at http://www.communitychristian.org/aboutus/beliefs . This may put to bed some of the slanted views of the idea about being a Christ follower in the true sense of the meaning, not the wordly concept of the word Christian that is twisted and full of pain for many.
In Matthew it says that though many call me Lord, Lord I will not hear them - even when they cry out to me about all they have done in my name (Christians).
All I am saying is that the name needs to be refined, purified and re-invented. The way it is being used is sooo wrong. i.e. "Ya, the guy told me he was a good Christian just before stealing my life's savings". Or "I don't understand how HE could have raped 15 young girls, he always seemed like such a good Christian". The world groups Catholics into the Christian faith - wow, what a thought that is. And, most Catholics don't know any better, they think they ARE Christians because someone has told them they are. If they were Christ followers, not priest and doctrine followers they would fully understand salvation and walk in a life of salvation through grace.
Not the most politically correct example, but true. I appreciate your comments and hope you will see beyond the garbage that a few people have put into the minds of many about the point that is getting lost. In John 17 Christ prayed for unity among believers so we may realize the glory of God through him. What a day that will be when people shed RELIGIOUS cloaks and just serve our King!
So many things, so little time.
Steve
Take a look at the passage in Matthew, if you will notice the people to whom Christ is refering to are stateing their works as the criteria for their righteousness thus they are trusting in what they have done and not what Christ has done. The name Christian does not need re-invented the people using the name need to be born agian, I can say all day long that I'm from Australia and go around trying to talk like one and look like one but it wont make me one. Christ is to be in us and we are to be yeilded to the Spirit so that our lives are a reflection of Him. He must increase and we must decrease. Just because some one calls themself something doesnt make it so. To be a follower depends on what you do, To be a Christian is to depend on what Christ has done for you." Come to me all that labor and are heavy ladden and I will give you rest". We have to cease from our labor to be righteous, and put our faith in Him and what He has done.
The Greek word for "Christian," is Christianos. This means "follower of Christ; Christian." According to Hayford’s Bible Handbook (page 570):
The word occurs three times in the New Testament.
The designation of the early followers of Christ as Christians was initiated by the non-Christian population of Antioch (Acts 11:26), and originally it was probably a term of mocking or derision – "little Christs." Eventually, however, Christians used it of themselves as a name of honor, not of shame (Acts 26:28; I Peter 4:16). Prior to their adoption of the name, the Christians called themselves believers (Acts 5:14), brothers (Acts 6:3), or saints (Acts 9:13), names which also continued to be used…."
T/S says, Just because some one calls themself something doesnt make it so. To be a follower depends on what you do, To be a Christian is to depend on what Christ has done for you.
FWB says read the definition of the word Christian as outlined above. Being a Christ follower is what a Christian DOES. Having our hearts refined through the blood of Christ, well that's what God does for us if we commit to follow Christf - through His grace.
People have perverted the word Christian and have used it in its original context more and more in the past few years (not what it grew to mean after refinement) - the orginal use was a mockery of followers of Christ. We need to REFINE and PURIFY and REINVENT the word in TODAY's society to mean exactly what YOU and I are saying. To mean what the early Christians turned the word into - an honorable title. But not to just hide behind the word in religious style.
Unfortunately, the word is being used incorrectly all over the world in every community. People are calling themselves something they are not - WE AGREE! This is the whole point of the movement, not some twisted anti-Christ movement. It is to get Christians together, unified for the cause of Christ. Weeds will grow with the wheat and will either choke the wheat or the wheat will be sifted if it is strong enough. It is Biblical to expect refining if you ask for it - this is what is being called for with this movement.
Be strong and continue to stand for the kingdom. Just don't allow yourself to be grouped in with a bunch of people that, as you put it, need to be born again. Don't be caught without oil in your lamp amongst the people who are complacent and accepting of the being put into a pen with people who use your King's name without reverence, respect, or right to do so.
God Bless and thank you for all of your repsonses.